1 00:00:05,250 --> 00:00:02,480 greeting citizens and welcome to unknown 2 00:00:05,650 --> 00:00:05,260 [Music] 3 00:00:24,460 --> 00:00:05,660 [Applause] 4 00:00:26,620 --> 00:00:24,470 [Music] 5 00:00:29,050 --> 00:00:26,630 I'm Jason McClellan I'm here with Ryan 6 00:00:31,150 --> 00:00:29,060 Sprague and a special guest our friend 7 00:00:33,190 --> 00:00:31,160 author and spaceflight historian Amy 8 00:00:35,260 --> 00:00:33,200 Shira Teitel and we're happy to hang out 9 00:00:36,940 --> 00:00:35,270 with you today and of course Amy were 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:36,950 exceptionally happy to have you here 11 00:00:41,020 --> 00:00:38,810 hanging out with us today to talk some 12 00:00:43,660 --> 00:00:41,030 good old history I love history I love 13 00:00:46,180 --> 00:00:43,670 context I love correct history and 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:46,190 that's why we wanted to have you on this 15 00:00:50,590 --> 00:00:48,890 episode specifically we'll be discussing 16 00:00:52,630 --> 00:00:50,600 another episode of history's project 17 00:00:55,150 --> 00:00:52,640 Bluebook today but first a few 18 00:00:56,979 --> 00:00:55,160 announcements Maureen Elsberry and I are 19 00:00:58,930 --> 00:00:56,989 presenting a panel at Emerald City 20 00:01:02,140 --> 00:00:58,940 Comicon in Seattle Washington on Friday 21 00:01:04,570 --> 00:01:02,150 March 15th titled real-life x-files 22 00:01:07,180 --> 00:01:04,580 strange stories of real paranormal 23 00:01:08,950 --> 00:01:07,190 investigations Emerald City Comic Con 24 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:08,960 runs March 14th through 17th at the 25 00:01:12,219 --> 00:01:10,640 Washington State Convention Center more 26 00:01:14,620 --> 00:01:12,229 information about that event and by 27 00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:14,630 tickets go to Emerald City Comicon calm 28 00:01:20,380 --> 00:01:17,870 then June 21st through the 23rd Ryan 29 00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:20,390 Sprague and I will be speaking at alien 30 00:01:25,390 --> 00:01:23,750 Con in Los Angeles California and you 31 00:01:27,190 --> 00:01:25,400 just might see our colleagues Shane hurt 32 00:01:28,810 --> 00:01:27,200 and wearing Ellsbury there too 33 00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:28,820 we'll certainly be talking much more 34 00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:31,280 about alien Con as it gets closer the 35 00:01:35,260 --> 00:01:33,620 alien con comm is the events website 36 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:35,270 that's where you should go to learn more 37 00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:36,890 about the event and that's where you can 38 00:01:41,290 --> 00:01:39,200 buy tickets to and the new announcement 39 00:01:44,770 --> 00:01:41,300 this week Shane hurt and I will be at 40 00:01:48,610 --> 00:01:44,780 UFO Megacon in Laughlin Nevada on March 41 00:01:50,260 --> 00:01:48,620 30th as the name implies UFO Megacon is 42 00:01:52,780 --> 00:01:50,270 a big event 43 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:52,790 it runs from March 24th all the way 44 00:01:57,250 --> 00:01:54,710 through the 30th and it features 45 00:01:59,260 --> 00:01:57,260 something like 40 speakers but yeah 46 00:02:01,720 --> 00:01:59,270 we'll be there just on the 30th like I 47 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:01,730 said so check out UFO Megacon com for 48 00:02:05,860 --> 00:02:04,370 all the info on that event alright with 49 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:05,870 the announcements out of the way let's 50 00:02:10,330 --> 00:02:07,610 get into this week's project Bluebook 51 00:02:12,220 --> 00:02:10,340 discussion the TV network history 52 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:12,230 launched this new dramatic series this 53 00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:14,510 season titled Project Blue Book this 54 00:02:19,210 --> 00:02:16,640 fictional series is based on the u.s. 55 00:02:22,630 --> 00:02:19,220 air force's real-life official UFO study 56 00:02:25,899 --> 00:02:22,640 that ran from 1952 through 1969 although 57 00:02:28,270 --> 00:02:25,909 the show is fictional it draws on real 58 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:28,280 Project Blue Book cases and the show's 59 00:02:33,370 --> 00:02:30,530 protagonist is a character named dr. J 60 00:02:35,290 --> 00:02:33,380 Allen Hynek a real individual who served 61 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:35,300 as a scientific advisor to the 62 00:02:38,890 --> 00:02:37,250 government on Project Blue Book and 63 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:38,900 predecessor's project sign and project 64 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:41,510 grudge and in the most recent episode of 65 00:02:45,550 --> 00:02:43,730 Project Blue Book we see another real 66 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:45,560 historical figure portrayed on the show 67 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:48,470 dr. Wernher von Braun von braun's 68 00:02:51,580 --> 00:02:50,270 presents in the fourth episode of 69 00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:51,590 Project Blue Book shouldn't be 70 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:53,780 surprising simply based on the episodes 71 00:02:58,780 --> 00:02:56,530 title which is Operation Paperclip 72 00:03:01,660 --> 00:02:58,790 before we talk about Operation Paperclip 73 00:03:04,180 --> 00:03:01,670 this episode featured a second 74 00:03:05,890 --> 00:03:04,190 historical event and that was the UFO 75 00:03:08,980 --> 00:03:05,900 encounter we see at the beginning of the 76 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:08,990 episode this real event depicted in the 77 00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:11,570 episode is the child's witted incident 78 00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:15,080 of 1948 and Ryan is going to give us a 79 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:17,390 brief overview of the real child's 80 00:03:22,510 --> 00:03:20,209 witted incident Ryan absolutely yes so 81 00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:22,520 guys this one of this event happened on 82 00:03:27,970 --> 00:03:26,000 July 24th 1948 so like you mentioned 83 00:03:30,190 --> 00:03:27,980 Jason this is one of the earlier cases 84 00:03:33,670 --> 00:03:30,200 that the predecessor to Blue Book 85 00:03:36,370 --> 00:03:33,680 covered project signs so yeah July 24th 86 00:03:38,949 --> 00:03:36,380 Clarence child's and his copilot John 87 00:03:41,710 --> 00:03:38,959 witted they were flying a dc-3 passenger 88 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:41,720 plane for Eastern Airlines from Houston 89 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:44,570 to Atlanta and there were 20 passengers 90 00:03:50,979 --> 00:03:47,209 on board the domestic flight and as they 91 00:03:52,990 --> 00:03:50,989 were flying this dalish red glowing 92 00:03:55,030 --> 00:03:53,000 object appeared directly in their flight 93 00:03:56,949 --> 00:03:55,040 path so at first they thought it was 94 00:04:00,490 --> 00:03:56,959 like a jet there or something coming 95 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:00,500 coming close but once they got closer to 96 00:04:04,930 --> 00:04:02,690 this object it was obvious that it was 97 00:04:07,479 --> 00:04:04,940 not any sort of conventional aircraft 98 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:07,489 both pilots claimed that the object was 99 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:10,250 approximately a hundred feet long and 25 100 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:11,810 to 30 feet in diameter 101 00:04:18,219 --> 00:04:15,290 it was torpedo or cigar shaped and it 102 00:04:20,590 --> 00:04:18,229 had no wings it appeared to have lights 103 00:04:22,750 --> 00:04:20,600 running up and down it and even windows 104 00:04:25,150 --> 00:04:22,760 so the object it had a pointed nose 105 00:04:27,909 --> 00:04:25,160 section and there was like this bluish 106 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:27,919 glow running on the belly of it from end 107 00:04:32,530 --> 00:04:30,710 to end and out of the back of the 108 00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:32,540 supposed object was this orange red 109 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:35,350 exhaust that had been seen by the pilots 110 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:38,090 child's first reaction was to turn the 111 00:04:41,770 --> 00:04:39,710 plane to the left as the object seemed 112 00:04:43,659 --> 00:04:41,780 to be coming slightly to his right and 113 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:43,669 they watched as the crafted an abrupt 114 00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:46,490 pull up just after missing them and then 115 00:04:51,690 --> 00:04:49,630 just completely disappeared in child's 116 00:04:55,230 --> 00:04:51,700 is stresses that it's not like it 117 00:04:57,930 --> 00:04:55,240 disappeared out of you know out of lack 118 00:05:00,780 --> 00:04:57,940 of like distance or far away it 119 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:00,790 literally just like D materialized out 120 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:03,550 of sight so one of the witnesses on 121 00:05:08,130 --> 00:05:05,890 board one of the only passengers who was 122 00:05:10,470 --> 00:05:08,140 awake when this whole thing happened he 123 00:05:13,110 --> 00:05:10,480 described hearing a sound like a rocket 124 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:13,120 during the event and he even saw like an 125 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:15,810 eerie streak out the window 126 00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:19,450 so yeah this event also was witnessed 127 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:21,520 from Robins Air Force Base near Macon 128 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:23,890 Georgia where several witnesses stated 129 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:25,120 they saw an object of the same 130 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:27,490 description about a half an hour before 131 00:05:32,730 --> 00:05:31,210 this sighting sir charles and witted the 132 00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:32,740 pilots they reported the incident to 133 00:05:37,470 --> 00:05:35,470 local reporters as well as the United 134 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:37,480 States Air Force's air technical 135 00:05:42,180 --> 00:05:40,450 intelligence center and also project 136 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:42,190 sign again a predecessor to Blue Book 137 00:05:46,980 --> 00:05:44,770 and many skeptics believe that what they 138 00:05:49,710 --> 00:05:46,990 saw that night was either a meteor or 139 00:05:52,590 --> 00:05:49,720 just a mirage however these explanations 140 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:52,600 they could not account for many of the 141 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:55,210 characteristics that the pilots stated 142 00:06:00,090 --> 00:05:57,490 so yeah sign ruled out the possibility 143 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:00,100 of a conventional aircraft after tracing 144 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:03,430 flight records and the child's would 145 00:06:09,510 --> 00:06:05,770 exciting it's one of the three classic 146 00:06:11,610 --> 00:06:09,520 UFO incidents in 1948 that convinced the 147 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:11,620 personnel of project sign that UFOs were 148 00:06:17,010 --> 00:06:14,710 a genuine phenomenon and needed a closer 149 00:06:20,550 --> 00:06:17,020 study and one of those good-old cases 150 00:06:22,820 --> 00:06:20,560 that says meteors pull up and and go up 151 00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:22,830 and set up down right of course yeah 152 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:26,020 makes logical sense yeah no I was 153 00:06:29,790 --> 00:06:28,570 interesting seeing this because I didn't 154 00:06:32,070 --> 00:06:29,800 put that together when I was seeing it 155 00:06:34,170 --> 00:06:32,080 happen because it was so you know a bit 156 00:06:36,690 --> 00:06:34,180 quite a bit different from the actual 157 00:06:38,820 --> 00:06:36,700 case and certainly Hynek wasn't wasn't 158 00:06:40,470 --> 00:06:38,830 aboard the plane that saw that yeah yeah 159 00:06:42,810 --> 00:06:40,480 hi Nick wasn't even involved yet when 160 00:06:44,820 --> 00:06:42,820 this case actually happened so again 161 00:06:47,610 --> 00:06:44,830 this is where the show starts to sort of 162 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:47,620 veer from the timeline of authentic you 163 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:49,780 know historical accuracy I should say 164 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:52,270 but yeah a fascinating case and again 165 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:54,010 one of the three classic ones that 166 00:06:59,280 --> 00:06:56,530 really prompted them the government to 167 00:07:01,920 --> 00:06:59,290 start looking into UFOs yeah alright so 168 00:07:03,170 --> 00:07:01,930 we need to shift gears and it shift our 169 00:07:06,409 --> 00:07:03,180 attention to what had 170 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:06,419 really excited for this episode and that 171 00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:08,520 is Operation Paperclip and Wernher von 172 00:07:16,580 --> 00:07:11,910 Braun and I'll say right away that this 173 00:07:18,170 --> 00:07:16,590 episode took some bizarre turns and took 174 00:07:21,499 --> 00:07:18,180 Operation Paperclip 175 00:07:24,409 --> 00:07:21,509 and von Braun's involvement in a strange 176 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:24,419 yet I guess sort of predictable 177 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:27,570 direction for the show way before we get 178 00:07:32,180 --> 00:07:30,300 into that Amy I would love it if you 179 00:07:32,689 --> 00:07:32,190 would talk for a bit about Operation 180 00:07:39,969 --> 00:07:32,699 Paperclip 181 00:07:43,490 --> 00:07:39,979 that was how von Braun was involved etc 182 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:43,500 then after that we'll get into how this 183 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:45,180 was all portrayed on the show and 184 00:07:52,430 --> 00:07:50,430 discuss my feelings on this yeah so I'm 185 00:07:54,860 --> 00:07:52,440 just just a note because I feel like 186 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:54,870 this is one thing that gets everybody so 187 00:07:59,629 --> 00:07:57,810 it's this program was called operation 188 00:08:03,080 --> 00:07:59,639 overcast Operation Paperclip 189 00:08:04,730 --> 00:08:03,090 and also Project Paperclip so it's it 190 00:08:06,110 --> 00:08:04,740 comes under any name so for anyone 191 00:08:08,149 --> 00:08:06,120 listening who's confused by that it's 192 00:08:10,279 --> 00:08:08,159 all kind of the same thing so basically 193 00:08:13,730 --> 00:08:10,289 what this was was at the end of the 194 00:08:18,140 --> 00:08:13,740 Second World War the Americans were 195 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:18,150 looking to bring back some of the Nazi 196 00:08:23,149 --> 00:08:20,310 scientists as a form of almost like 197 00:08:25,550 --> 00:08:23,159 intellectual reparations the idea being 198 00:08:27,050 --> 00:08:25,560 you know these scientists had developed 199 00:08:28,909 --> 00:08:27,060 at least insane weapons and used them 200 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:28,919 for evil and we'd rather have them on 201 00:08:33,409 --> 00:08:31,770 our side than in the Soviet side and one 202 00:08:35,930 --> 00:08:33,419 of the technologies that the US was 203 00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:35,940 really interested in was the v2 guided 204 00:08:40,670 --> 00:08:39,360 missile which which could cover a decent 205 00:08:42,079 --> 00:08:40,680 amount of distance you know launching in 206 00:08:44,269 --> 00:08:42,089 through the Eastern Europe to London and 207 00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:44,279 sort of sort of the border of Western 208 00:08:47,690 --> 00:08:46,200 Europe brother and this was something 209 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:47,700 that America really wanted to develop 210 00:08:54,019 --> 00:08:50,250 and start to use towards its own future 211 00:08:56,269 --> 00:08:54,029 military needs and the problem was who 212 00:08:58,370 --> 00:08:56,279 do you get and how many you know former 213 00:08:59,810 --> 00:08:58,380 card-carrying Nazis can you possibly 214 00:09:01,550 --> 00:08:59,820 bring in to the United States because 215 00:09:04,610 --> 00:09:01,560 that's not something people necessarily 216 00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:04,620 want to do so what happened was that you 217 00:09:07,220 --> 00:09:06,000 know it wasn't just the rocket 218 00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:07,230 scientists there were chemists there 219 00:09:11,510 --> 00:09:08,880 were all all kinds of branches of 220 00:09:14,269 --> 00:09:11,520 science and scientists that various 221 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:14,279 American military wanted to bring over 222 00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:15,770 to the United States so 223 00:09:20,260 --> 00:09:18,080 what they did was they kind of had to 224 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:20,270 prioritize who was going to make it and 225 00:09:25,060 --> 00:09:22,370 top of that list was Wernher von Braun 226 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:25,070 who was the one of the chief engineers 227 00:09:32,140 --> 00:09:28,730 and the leader behind the VT program so 228 00:09:35,340 --> 00:09:32,150 what what they they did the u.s. the US 229 00:09:38,770 --> 00:09:35,350 Joint Chiefs of Staff I believe it was 230 00:09:40,450 --> 00:09:38,780 agreed that 350 German scientists could 231 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:40,460 come into the United States under 232 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:43,690 operation overcast slash paperclip and 233 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:46,250 that was a great number for the people 234 00:09:50,170 --> 00:09:47,600 who wanted all the rocket scientists but 235 00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:50,180 that was total scientists so what they 236 00:09:54,330 --> 00:09:51,920 had to do was work with fun Braun to 237 00:09:58,180 --> 00:09:54,340 figure out who were the absolutely most 238 00:10:00,130 --> 00:09:58,190 necessary personnel to bring over and if 239 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:00,140 I'm recalling correctly because I've 240 00:10:02,770 --> 00:10:02,330 been working on other stuff in this 241 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:02,780 lately 242 00:10:06,940 --> 00:10:04,970 what they did was going through all the 243 00:10:09,370 --> 00:10:06,950 files they marked the ones that they 244 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:09,380 wanted with a paper clip and when Braun 245 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:11,960 was given okay over the 350 you can have 246 00:10:17,890 --> 00:10:14,540 a hundred and ten he eventually got the 247 00:10:20,710 --> 00:10:17,900 number up to 124 all of whom were 248 00:10:23,860 --> 00:10:20,720 brought in to the United States in late 249 00:10:25,090 --> 00:10:23,870 1945 or early 1946 and most of them 250 00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:25,100 ended up at the White Sands Missile 251 00:10:30,370 --> 00:10:28,160 Range in New Mexico where they worked on 252 00:10:32,140 --> 00:10:30,380 recovered v2 s putting together beaches 253 00:10:34,180 --> 00:10:32,150 from parts that were scavenged this is 254 00:10:35,710 --> 00:10:34,190 like it's a massive story but they 255 00:10:39,550 --> 00:10:35,720 brought I think was something insane 256 00:10:42,010 --> 00:10:39,560 like 300 train cars full of parts of v2 257 00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:42,020 s and only one completed rocket in that 258 00:10:45,610 --> 00:10:43,760 whole mess and they were rebuilding them 259 00:10:47,830 --> 00:10:45,620 teaching American scientists about it 260 00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:47,840 and sort of adding stages and kind of 261 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:50,000 building it so that that was it 262 00:10:55,630 --> 00:10:52,130 operation overcast slash paperclip was 263 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:55,640 the program under which Nazi scientists 264 00:10:59,680 --> 00:10:56,930 came to the United States and it was 265 00:11:02,260 --> 00:10:59,690 this weird thing where like they you 266 00:11:04,270 --> 00:11:02,270 know it's we're not getting into Nazi 267 00:11:08,020 --> 00:11:04,280 affiliations here but you know they were 268 00:11:09,610 --> 00:11:08,030 all forced by the Nazi army to be 269 00:11:11,050 --> 00:11:09,620 card-carrying Nazis now whether or not 270 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:11,060 they believed in those ideals is a 271 00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,310 totally separate discussion but they 272 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:15,440 were kind of in that like nebulous zone 273 00:11:19,690 --> 00:11:18,110 where everyone knew they were former 274 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:19,700 Nazis that the US government still 275 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:21,170 wanted them but no one really knew what 276 00:11:25,210 --> 00:11:22,850 to do with them and that didn't begin 277 00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:25,220 their formal immigration process yet 278 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:28,520 they actually from Brown's team 279 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:32,030 in the US for five years almost before 280 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:33,710 they were punted across the border to 281 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:35,090 Mexico and then brought back to 282 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:38,410 officially begin the immigration process 283 00:11:42,910 --> 00:11:40,610 they just had to get them across a 284 00:11:44,530 --> 00:11:42,920 border and back into order to say like 285 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:44,540 this is the date and place in which you 286 00:11:48,190 --> 00:11:46,610 entered the country because see 287 00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:48,200 currently they couldn't like they 288 00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:50,120 couldn't say oh yeah we brought them in 289 00:11:54,430 --> 00:11:51,950 through all these Air Force bases yeah 290 00:12:01,060 --> 00:11:54,440 so they're actually Mexican immigrants 291 00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:01,070 then no I for all I know you know one of 292 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:02,720 the few times any of them ever went near 293 00:12:08,140 --> 00:12:05,570 Mexico so I yeah even they they took a 294 00:12:12,910 --> 00:12:08,150 they took a like a tramcar over and a 295 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:12,920 tramcar back nice yeah so what was the I 296 00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:15,380 guess end result or what was the biggest 297 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,980 contribution that we can say that the 298 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:21,200 scientists from Operation Paperclip 299 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:24,130 gave us in the end I mean it depends on 300 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:26,810 what science you're looking at and who 301 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:28,730 you considered what you consider to be 302 00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:30,170 the most important but I would say the 303 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:32,990 moon um it was it was fun Browns team 304 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:34,730 that ended up working for the army 305 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:37,130 ballistic missile agency in Huntsville 306 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:39,710 that was then folded into NASA in 1960 307 00:12:43,390 --> 00:12:41,990 that became the team that developed the 308 00:12:44,980 --> 00:12:43,400 Saturn family of rockets that built the 309 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:44,990 Saturn 5 that took Apollo to the moon 310 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:48,410 and tada so yeah that's that's where 311 00:12:53,650 --> 00:12:50,900 that lineage ended up going it went 312 00:12:55,090 --> 00:12:53,660 directly into the space program and it 313 00:12:57,970 --> 00:12:55,100 was fun Brown's team that launched the 314 00:13:00,820 --> 00:12:57,980 first American satellite in January / 315 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:00,830 February of 1951 it was right around 316 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:02,960 midnight on the 31st of January so 317 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:04,430 depending on your time zone that's why 318 00:13:08,890 --> 00:13:06,890 the dates a little bit awkward and yeah 319 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:08,900 launch builder all the early rockets 320 00:13:12,910 --> 00:13:10,610 that got some of the first spacecraft 321 00:13:15,010 --> 00:13:12,920 and human missions off the ground it's 322 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:15,020 such exciting history and you know I 323 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:18,050 when I saw that this episode was going 324 00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:21,770 to deal with this time in history and 325 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:24,680 this specific operation I knew I had to 326 00:13:29,380 --> 00:13:26,600 have you on because I knew it was just 327 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:29,390 gonna be a a thrill to talk about this 328 00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:32,510 with you but I had no idea what the 329 00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:38,380 episode was going to do so now the show 330 00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:40,380 all kinds of 331 00:13:49,010 --> 00:13:46,440 with this story and so I know I know you 332 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:49,020 have some things to say Amy but before I 333 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:52,170 get to you what do you think Ryan I'm 334 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:55,770 sorry operation and dr. Bob Brown were 335 00:13:59,930 --> 00:13:57,930 portrayed in this episode she is 336 00:14:02,870 --> 00:13:59,940 chomping at the bit no I 337 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:02,880 I remember reading any Jacobson's book 338 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:05,010 about Operation Paperclip so I was super 339 00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:07,200 excited when I saw that blue book was 340 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:09,480 gonna be covering this I'm like okay I 341 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:12,090 don't really see the connection but I'll 342 00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:13,170 be interested to see what they do with 343 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:15,990 it it was interesting that they 344 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:18,090 connected this child's witted case to 345 00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:20,730 the v2 rocket because yeah that's that's 346 00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:22,260 what a lot of people believe it could 347 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:25,440 have been possibly so I totally 348 00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:27,930 understood that so when they decided to 349 00:14:33,620 --> 00:14:30,980 just go fallout with that and bring 350 00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:33,630 Verner von braun into this I was like 351 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:37,680 okay this this could be cool so here's 352 00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:41,250 where it really lost me guys the crop 353 00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:45,300 circles like what you crop circles as 354 00:14:50,750 --> 00:14:48,300 propulsion forces for these rockets or 355 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:50,760 these you know early versions of space 356 00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:53,340 that completely lost me I mean for 357 00:14:59,000 --> 00:14:56,430 anyone out there listening I personally 358 00:15:01,520 --> 00:14:59,010 am NOT a fan of the crop circle 359 00:15:04,460 --> 00:15:01,530 phenomenon I think it's beautiful I 360 00:15:06,830 --> 00:15:04,470 think it's a man-made but I don't think 361 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:06,840 it was connected to you know these 362 00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:08,370 Rockets were literally making these 363 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:10,440 intricate beautiful designs and crops 364 00:15:15,050 --> 00:15:13,050 out there so that's where it started to 365 00:15:20,930 --> 00:15:15,060 lose me a little is they were trying to 366 00:15:24,110 --> 00:15:20,940 throw so many UFO conspiracies or sub 367 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:24,120 topics into this episode and yeah I 368 00:15:28,340 --> 00:15:26,010 think it was really fascinating that 369 00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:28,350 this could possibly be the earliest 370 00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:31,920 versions of testing space you know high 371 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:35,040 altitude in space flight I thought that 372 00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:37,770 was fascinating but when it came to 373 00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:39,600 everything they started to cover with 374 00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:42,270 the alien in the glass tube and crop 375 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:45,420 circles I just I started to tune out so 376 00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:48,930 this this episode was really tough for 377 00:15:52,220 --> 00:15:50,790 me to get through and Amy I am a big 378 00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:52,230 proponent of the show I think it's 379 00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:53,120 awesome 380 00:15:58,210 --> 00:15:55,279 it but this one lost me guys it's this 381 00:16:00,309 --> 00:15:58,220 one completely completely lost me Ryan 382 00:16:03,309 --> 00:16:00,319 when it comes to you know exotic 383 00:16:05,410 --> 00:16:03,319 propulsion and the ability to leave 384 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:05,420 these intricate beautiful crop circles 385 00:16:09,579 --> 00:16:07,610 behind I don't think you're giving a 386 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:09,589 genius like von Braun the credit he 387 00:16:15,069 --> 00:16:12,649 deserves you don't pull that off you 388 00:16:21,999 --> 00:16:15,079 know maybe maybe maybe maybe this was 389 00:16:23,619 --> 00:16:22,009 all like performance art no I I agree 390 00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,629 with you man I I found a lot of it 391 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:26,240 pretty ridiculous and and for a me and 392 00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:28,430 anyone else who hasn't seen all the 393 00:16:32,379 --> 00:16:30,980 other episodes that Ryan and I have you 394 00:16:35,049 --> 00:16:32,389 know this is kind of the first episode 395 00:16:37,929 --> 00:16:35,059 where we've seen the the story take a 396 00:16:40,869 --> 00:16:37,939 sharp departure and kind of veer into a 397 00:16:42,309 --> 00:16:40,879 lot of bizarre territory I mean yes it 398 00:16:44,019 --> 00:16:42,319 is a fictional show and we keep saying 399 00:16:46,689 --> 00:16:44,029 that there is a lot of creativity 400 00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:46,699 involved and they brought a lot of other 401 00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:48,860 elements from UFO lore and and other 402 00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:50,689 things into these storylines to make 403 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:51,920 them more interesting and it's great it 404 00:16:56,199 --> 00:16:53,930 makes for great TV and and Ryan and I 405 00:16:59,319 --> 00:16:56,209 are loving watching this as UFO geeks 406 00:17:01,449 --> 00:16:59,329 it's it's super fun but this one just 407 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:01,459 you know kind of decided to throw 408 00:17:06,939 --> 00:17:04,089 everything out and go all sorts of crazy 409 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:06,949 so I was I was really shocked by that 410 00:17:10,659 --> 00:17:08,329 because we haven't seen that from this 411 00:17:12,579 --> 00:17:10,669 show yeah something else that it really 412 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:12,589 kind of disappointed me and I wasn't 413 00:17:18,210 --> 00:17:15,049 expecting was how they sort of take 414 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:18,220 extreme liberties with von Braun and 415 00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:21,049 vilify him you know I'm saying that he's 416 00:17:27,519 --> 00:17:25,130 like this evil bad guy and as a fan of 417 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:27,529 I'm proud I'm not liking where that's 418 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:30,610 going so that was my biggest reaction 419 00:17:38,409 --> 00:17:35,690 all right Amy I'm releasing you know 420 00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,419 what you thought yeah and it I mean it 421 00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:40,880 might be this is the first episode of 422 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:42,830 this show I've seen so I was wondering 423 00:17:46,930 --> 00:17:44,570 if like maybe I was missing some 424 00:17:50,110 --> 00:17:46,940 backstory like why the Russian woman had 425 00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:50,120 a gun and was a spy but ya know my my 426 00:17:55,269 --> 00:17:51,950 biggest question watching this episode 427 00:17:58,220 --> 00:17:55,279 was what year is this supposed to be I 428 00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,230 was so confused I 429 00:18:02,330 --> 00:18:00,480 so confuse cuz like I know some of these 430 00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:02,340 dates I don't you know anyone listening 431 00:18:07,159 --> 00:18:04,590 I'm not a the UFO person here I'm the 432 00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:07,169 history person here but sorry Brian you 433 00:18:15,230 --> 00:18:13,440 said that UFO sighting was 1946 48 okay 434 00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:15,240 with these sightings Amy they're not 435 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:17,040 they're not true too when the show is 436 00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:20,910 supposed to be happening even like even 437 00:18:26,180 --> 00:18:24,299 within the like the space history stuff 438 00:18:28,030 --> 00:18:26,190 I'm like these dates are not lighting up 439 00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:28,040 right because they're talking about 440 00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:30,390 operation so operation overcast / 441 00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:32,760 paperclip it expanded after that initial 442 00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:35,190 kind of bringing a handful of scientists 443 00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:36,840 and but it was definitely like not still 444 00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:41,160 going I don't think in like 1961 the 445 00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:42,900 aesthetic of the show was kind of like 446 00:18:47,299 --> 00:18:45,630 early 50s maybe but then they mentioned 447 00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:47,309 the space race and the Russians but also 448 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:50,580 having orbited a chimp three times and 449 00:18:57,980 --> 00:18:53,850 also Rover yeah they're talking about 450 00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,990 the space program but also they were on 451 00:19:02,480 --> 00:18:59,760 a military base still so that would mean 452 00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,490 it would have to be 1959 there was like 453 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:04,559 all of the things I'm just like I'm so 454 00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:06,090 confused as to what you're even trying 455 00:19:09,530 --> 00:19:08,220 to do right now and I'm sort of like I 456 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:09,540 couldn't I could do it I could totally 457 00:19:14,990 --> 00:19:12,210 be like this is fiction if you didn't 458 00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:15,000 put like one of the most notable figures 459 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:17,640 of the early space age as your central 460 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:20,910 character like just make him like like 461 00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:23,730 Klaus on rockets or something like give 462 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:25,980 him a make of a fictionalized person 463 00:19:32,030 --> 00:19:27,330 it's supposed to like Wernher von Braun 464 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:32,040 who I'm just so confused the whole thing 465 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:34,770 was like I'd I just it just kind of lost 466 00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:35,910 me like there are so many 467 00:19:41,419 --> 00:19:38,340 inconsistencies from it from my history 468 00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:41,429 aside to it was like this is never has a 469 00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:44,070 show been so true to the provides that 470 00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:50,520 I've inspired by true events so yeah 471 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:51,870 there was a lot of things like taste 472 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:53,900 like you said vilifying from Braun like 473 00:19:59,900 --> 00:19:57,570 I've spent a great number of years 474 00:20:02,690 --> 00:19:59,910 trying to figure out how to deal with a 475 00:20:05,780 --> 00:20:02,700 figure like from Braun who developed 476 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:05,790 Rockets that were built by slave labor 477 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:08,370 and killed more people while building 478 00:20:11,049 --> 00:20:10,290 them than actually with rocket strikes 479 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:11,059 and then who also 480 00:20:15,070 --> 00:20:12,529 built the racket that's an Americans to 481 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:15,080 the moon that's a really hard person to 482 00:20:20,110 --> 00:20:17,330 figure and you know there's a lot of 483 00:20:22,029 --> 00:20:20,120 evidence that says you know he was not 484 00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:22,039 I've kind of landed that he's not he's 485 00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:24,559 not immoral so much as a moral cause 486 00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:26,809 like when you're working in Hitler's 487 00:20:29,409 --> 00:20:27,529 Germany 488 00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:29,419 so in when he was 20 years old the 489 00:20:35,769 --> 00:20:32,950 German army is in like nineteen 31 or 32 490 00:20:37,389 --> 00:20:35,779 said we'll come develop your rockets for 491 00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:37,399 the army and we'll give you all the 492 00:20:41,769 --> 00:20:38,960 money and all the resources you want and 493 00:20:43,779 --> 00:20:41,779 also a PhD and he's like why would I not 494 00:20:46,690 --> 00:20:43,789 take this I'm 20 and I just got the 495 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:46,700 dream job and then you know the Nazi 496 00:20:50,919 --> 00:20:49,369 army strong arms it from the German army 497 00:20:52,570 --> 00:20:50,929 and then suddenly he's building a weapon 498 00:20:55,509 --> 00:20:52,580 but if he speaks out about it he's 499 00:20:57,129 --> 00:20:55,519 killed in fact he did speak out against 500 00:20:59,139 --> 00:20:57,139 using it as a weapon and described 501 00:21:01,019 --> 00:20:59,149 wanting to use rockets for space flight 502 00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:01,029 and then he was arrested by the Gestapo 503 00:21:05,950 --> 00:21:04,340 so you know you kind of it's a survival 504 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:05,960 thing so that's like he's a really hard 505 00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:08,090 figure to deal with anyway so then to 506 00:21:13,239 --> 00:21:11,240 put in this like insane villainous like 507 00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:13,249 and also I'm randomly developing 508 00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,590 hovercraft have wheels for some reason 509 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:17,679 why does that have a craft need wheels 510 00:21:21,999 --> 00:21:20,090 it's sort of like this just took such a 511 00:21:23,980 --> 00:21:22,009 left turn on his character it's like 512 00:21:30,879 --> 00:21:23,990 almost an assault on a character it was 513 00:21:33,220 --> 00:21:30,889 very I was just very confused if I can 514 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:33,230 defend the wheel thing Amy I do know 515 00:21:37,149 --> 00:21:35,570 that the United States Air Force was 516 00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:37,159 developing these saucer-shaped craft 517 00:21:44,889 --> 00:21:39,350 that would have to be like wheeled out 518 00:21:46,749 --> 00:21:44,899 onto the tarmac so will takeoff design 519 00:21:50,619 --> 00:21:46,759 yeah it was supposed to be it's not the 520 00:21:53,230 --> 00:21:50,629 avrocar and they did test it but you 521 00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:53,240 know at least as far as we know like it 522 00:21:57,009 --> 00:21:54,590 was just a disaster and they could never 523 00:21:58,509 --> 00:21:57,019 get it to work I mean there's test video 524 00:22:00,279 --> 00:21:58,519 you can see where they're like wobbling 525 00:22:02,109 --> 00:22:00,289 around and looking ridiculous yeah 526 00:22:03,820 --> 00:22:02,119 that's another another one of these 527 00:22:07,450 --> 00:22:03,830 things it was very confusing to me you 528 00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:07,460 know from the UFO side is that one scene 529 00:22:12,999 --> 00:22:10,159 basically sort of incorporated several 530 00:22:15,820 --> 00:22:13,009 things from UFO lore and kind of meshed 531 00:22:18,159 --> 00:22:15,830 them together to be this one thing the 532 00:22:21,249 --> 00:22:18,169 avrocar certainly you know wasn't this 533 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:21,259 the spacecraft that like disappeared 534 00:22:25,690 --> 00:22:23,210 into a weird vortex right 535 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:25,700 so that laughs what did it do we did 536 00:22:30,790 --> 00:22:28,730 teleport like I guess we're left 537 00:22:33,370 --> 00:22:30,800 where the show goes next quote fake 538 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:33,380 Wernher von Braun it worked right all he 539 00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:38,810 says I'm like I was also I just want to 540 00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:40,160 point out with the crop circle in the 541 00:22:46,270 --> 00:22:42,400 field that he says that the the 542 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:46,280 propulsion system didn't burn the grass 543 00:22:52,510 --> 00:22:49,750 it melted the grass I've found that pod 544 00:22:54,550 --> 00:22:52,520 like doesn't grass is burned grass melts 545 00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:54,560 grass melt not waiter on the set and 546 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:00,080 it's plastic but yeah I mean I think 547 00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:01,490 what they were doing Ryan was they were 548 00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:04,150 they were taking the the idea the the 549 00:23:10,090 --> 00:23:07,030 legend of the Philadelphia Experiment 550 00:23:12,490 --> 00:23:10,100 yeah we are like you know trying to make 551 00:23:15,250 --> 00:23:12,500 this ship invisible but it like 552 00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:15,260 teleported somewhere else yeah it's just 553 00:23:21,310 --> 00:23:17,960 another another piece from UFO lore and 554 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:21,320 adding it to the avrocar and having that 555 00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:24,290 be the same story yeah yeah and I mean 556 00:23:29,260 --> 00:23:26,840 Jason you and I know from early press 557 00:23:32,140 --> 00:23:29,270 and publicity photos from the show I 558 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:32,150 mean this alien behind the glass will 559 00:23:37,780 --> 00:23:34,730 spend like a huge contention as soon as 560 00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:37,790 people saw dr. J Allen Hynek looking at 561 00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:39,980 an alien in a tube a lot of people were 562 00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:41,480 like I'm not even gonna watch the show 563 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:43,550 he never saw an alien like I'm done 564 00:23:48,580 --> 00:23:45,530 already yeah so it was interesting to 565 00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:48,590 say finally see that image played out 566 00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:50,540 and what it actually represented in the 567 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:53,780 show's fictional narratives that was 568 00:23:58,900 --> 00:23:55,730 pretty interesting this whole idea that 569 00:24:01,270 --> 00:23:58,910 it was like a von Braun says it was a 570 00:24:03,850 --> 00:24:01,280 you know a monkey Albert that they 571 00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:03,860 wanted to see how it is muscle tissue 572 00:24:08,290 --> 00:24:06,590 was affected in space but then we 573 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:08,300 learned that maybe that's not exactly 574 00:24:13,030 --> 00:24:11,210 what it was so yeah that whole alien 575 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:13,040 behind the glass thing was another big 576 00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:15,650 contention in the show I think - again I 577 00:24:21,790 --> 00:24:18,740 mean it's not something from alien lore 578 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:21,800 UFO lore I just don't know where did 579 00:24:27,910 --> 00:24:25,970 that come from I mean kind of different 580 00:24:29,770 --> 00:24:27,920 stories yeah I imagine that just comes 581 00:24:33,850 --> 00:24:29,780 from you know stories have recovered 582 00:24:34,529 --> 00:24:33,860 crash yeah alien spacecraft why is 583 00:24:36,209 --> 00:24:34,539 anything 584 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:36,219 well yeah like taking these creatures 585 00:24:42,539 --> 00:24:39,369 and keeping them and then forcing them 586 00:24:44,939 --> 00:24:42,549 to either work or continuing you do 587 00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:44,949 tests on them things like that so yeah I 588 00:24:49,259 --> 00:24:46,329 didn't have anything to do with any of 589 00:24:52,019 --> 00:24:49,269 this storyline at all right that's a 590 00:24:54,269 --> 00:24:52,029 good point I wanted to ask you Amy you 591 00:24:56,909 --> 00:24:54,279 know being the space historian have 592 00:24:59,310 --> 00:24:56,919 there ever been like documented cases of 593 00:25:01,079 --> 00:24:59,320 like test pilots coming forward and 594 00:25:03,959 --> 00:25:01,089 being like I was forced to like do this 595 00:25:05,579 --> 00:25:03,969 this like secret experiment or like go 596 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:05,589 up into a flight that I did not want to 597 00:25:10,379 --> 00:25:07,690 do have you ever come across anything 598 00:25:13,049 --> 00:25:10,389 like that no and I thought that was very 599 00:25:17,639 --> 00:25:13,059 odd yeah and also he put up a very weak 600 00:25:21,149 --> 00:25:17,649 fight that guy the only the only thing I 601 00:25:22,859 --> 00:25:21,159 can I can recall in sort of any anything 602 00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:22,869 of like test pilot doing something that 603 00:25:27,529 --> 00:25:25,089 they didn't feel ready for I mean you 604 00:25:31,229 --> 00:25:27,539 could argue that like the Apollo 1 crew 605 00:25:33,089 --> 00:25:31,239 did not totally feel confident in their 606 00:25:35,699 --> 00:25:33,099 mission as they were going but they they 607 00:25:37,139 --> 00:25:35,709 didn't have reservations that would sort 608 00:25:39,869 --> 00:25:37,149 of cause them to say we're not doing 609 00:25:41,369 --> 00:25:39,879 this flight but really their issue and 610 00:25:43,709 --> 00:25:41,379 their issue was really that the 611 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:43,719 simulator was not able to keep up with 612 00:25:46,589 --> 00:25:45,369 the changes in the spacecraft and they 613 00:25:48,209 --> 00:25:46,599 wanted to slow down to make sure that 614 00:25:52,099 --> 00:25:48,219 they had to adequate simulator time 615 00:25:55,949 --> 00:25:52,109 there's also the story of a Soyuz 1 616 00:25:59,579 --> 00:25:55,959 vladimir komarov they knew that it was 617 00:26:01,379 --> 00:25:59,589 doomed and yuri gagarin tried like got 618 00:26:03,449 --> 00:26:01,389 himself on backup and tried to like 619 00:26:05,399 --> 00:26:03,459 putting himself in way to protect his 620 00:26:06,719 --> 00:26:05,409 friend and like hoping that the soviet 621 00:26:09,479 --> 00:26:06,729 government would say oh look we can't 622 00:26:11,939 --> 00:26:09,489 risk our national hero so we can't let 623 00:26:13,139 --> 00:26:11,949 him do stuff and like he was hoping to 624 00:26:15,509 --> 00:26:13,149 change that of mine but didn't and he 625 00:26:18,959 --> 00:26:15,519 you know Komarov knew he was dead as 626 00:26:21,719 --> 00:26:18,969 soon as he launched but I've never heard 627 00:26:25,589 --> 00:26:21,729 with a test pilot like not really 628 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:25,599 wanting to do stuff and it's I couldn't 629 00:26:29,699 --> 00:26:27,129 find this because it's the hardest 630 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:29,709 everything to Google if you search a 631 00:26:36,089 --> 00:26:33,129 secret you know secret US Air Force test 632 00:26:37,889 --> 00:26:36,099 pilot alien you're not gonna get the 633 00:26:39,659 --> 00:26:37,899 story that I've read once that I can't 634 00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:39,669 remember who it was I think it was I 635 00:26:45,389 --> 00:26:43,029 think it was in in the late 40s it might 636 00:26:46,919 --> 00:26:45,399 have been one of these tests vivos these 637 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:46,929 vertical takeoff landing things that you 638 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:48,130 guys are talking about 639 00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:50,050 but there was a test pilot who was 640 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:52,270 flying this mission and it crashed and 641 00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:53,830 because it was a secret government 642 00:26:58,110 --> 00:26:55,480 program he was like covered with a 643 00:27:00,960 --> 00:26:58,120 blanket and rushed into the the like 644 00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:00,970 medical area for burns or something and 645 00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:02,860 everyone thought that it was an alien 646 00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:04,600 but it was really just a guy whose 647 00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:06,670 identity had to remain silent because it 648 00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:10,000 was a secret program for R&D and it was 649 00:27:13,710 --> 00:27:12,340 like like I think was Joe Kittinger was 650 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:13,720 there that day and that's where the 651 00:27:17,370 --> 00:27:15,310 story comes from but the still kyndra's 652 00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:17,380 being like yeah i was smuggled out of an 653 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:18,940 airplane to protect my identity and 654 00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:20,830 everyone thought it was an alien so hi 655 00:27:28,380 --> 00:27:26,740 the alien also just Joe Kittinger I was 656 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:28,390 trying to find that little story because 657 00:27:33,870 --> 00:27:30,820 that's what it reminded me of but again 658 00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:33,880 I it's the hardest Everett little 659 00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:37,600 vignette to Google yeah yeah yeah you 660 00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:38,980 get all sorts of crap with that search 661 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:43,390 yeah weird stuff comes up not the little 662 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:47,050 story that I needed well just a reminder 663 00:27:53,070 --> 00:27:50,890 that again this is a fictional show so 664 00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:53,080 the creators and writers are certainly 665 00:27:57,060 --> 00:27:54,880 free to be as creative as they want to 666 00:27:59,760 --> 00:27:57,070 be and they certainly showed us that 667 00:28:02,730 --> 00:27:59,770 with this episode but again reminder 668 00:28:04,170 --> 00:28:02,740 that history does a pretty good job of 669 00:28:05,730 --> 00:28:04,180 providing information about the real 670 00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:05,740 cases they use for inspiration in 671 00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:07,390 Project Blue Book write it right on 672 00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:08,740 their website so they show information 673 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:10,870 immediately following the episode when 674 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:13,090 they are on television but if you're 675 00:28:16,620 --> 00:28:15,370 interested in hearing more I recommend 676 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:16,630 visiting history's website history.com 677 00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:18,250 and watching the short little videos 678 00:28:22,860 --> 00:28:20,470 that they produce the feature UFO 679 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:22,870 historian Richard Dolan and a lot of UFO 680 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:26,530 researcher jacques ballet episode 5 a 681 00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:29,530 project Bluebook airs on february 5th 682 00:28:34,050 --> 00:28:32,320 and it looks like that episode tackles 683 00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:34,060 the mysterious aerial phenomena 684 00:28:39,030 --> 00:28:35,950 encountered by world war two pilots 685 00:28:40,650 --> 00:28:39,040 known as Foo Fighters I really wonder 686 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:40,660 how many people after watching that are 687 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:42,730 going to be like tagging Dave Grohl on 688 00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:49,570 Twitter it'll probably happen a lot it's 689 00:28:53,490 --> 00:28:50,980 pretty funny but I'm sure Dave will have 690 00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:53,500 fun with that or an upsurge in there 691 00:28:57,900 --> 00:28:55,990 themselves sorry it might help it might 692 00:28:59,850 --> 00:28:57,910 help no it's interesting how things work 693 00:29:02,670 --> 00:28:59,860 like that right they'll all of a sudden 694 00:29:04,350 --> 00:29:02,680 be trending be great yeah well citizens 695 00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:04,360 as we wrap up this episode we invite you 696 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:05,440 to come join us in the rogue planet 697 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:07,450 Facebook group at facebook.com slash 698 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:09,490 group slash rogue planet and let us know 699 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:10,810 what you thought of the fourth episode 700 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:12,610 of Project Blue Book or anything else to 701 00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:14,110 you up or related that's on your mind 702 00:29:17,910 --> 00:29:15,880 you can find more episodes of unknown on 703 00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,920 Apple podcasts stitcher Google Play I 704 00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:19,840 Heart Radio YouTube you know all the 705 00:29:23,670 --> 00:29:22,120 podcast places big thanks to our 706 00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:23,680 talented friend and fellow rogue planet 707 00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:25,150 Eire caleb hanks for the show's intro 708 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:27,310 and outro music of course you can always 709 00:29:30,330 --> 00:29:29,050 find this show at rogue planet TV 710 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:30,340 because unknown is a rogue planet 711 00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:32,530 production from Planet TV is your home 712 00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:34,540 for all things strange it's also where 713 00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:35,830 you can get your own unknown t-shirt 714 00:29:40,170 --> 00:29:37,510 from the rogue planets store just go to 715 00:29:41,460 --> 00:29:40,180 stores rogue planet TV thanks again for 716 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:41,470 hanging out with us today I'm Jason 717 00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:42,010 McClellan 718 00:29:45,570 --> 00:29:43,900 I'm Ryan Sprague and I'm Amy Shira 719 00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:45,580 Teitel do us a favour friends always 720 00:29:49,170 --> 00:29:47,470 treat the UFO subject with the cautious 721 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:49,180 and responsible skepticism it deserves 722 00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:51,370 question everything have the courage to 723 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:53,950 form your own opinions keep truth as the 724 00:29:58,050 --> 00:29:55,810 focus of your quest even if the truth 725 00:30:00,430 --> 00:29:58,060 conflicts with your opinions and of 726 00:30:00,610 --> 00:30:00,440 course stay strange